I Have Had About Enough Of These Celtics/Kyrie Irving Trade Proposals
I was going to wait until the Weekend Greenie bag where this question was asked, but I cannot sit on this any longer. Especially when I saw this tweet this morning
Listen I’m no stranger to the internet. I get what Jason is doing here, and why FS1 is struggle city. But I’m sorry, I cannot let this TRASH go without saying something. In fact, this is not the first outrageous scenario I’ve seen when it comes to Kyrie trade ideas for the Celtics. To put it simply, there almost isn’t a scenario in which it makes sense for the Celtics, both in the short term, and in the long term to even consider making a move like this. Now this will be hard for some people, I imagine they won’t read another word I write and simply go with the “GREENIE YOU’RE SUCH A FUCKING HOMER” bullshit. But there are actual reasons as to why this makes no sense. Let’s go from the top
1. There really is not much difference between Kyrie Irving and Isaiah Thomas
I get it, Kyrie is younger than Isaiah, but that’s about the only advantage he has. Let me ask you something, if you were tasked with trying to tell someone what Kyrie does better than Isaiah, what would you say? You’d probably lead off with that he’s a better scorer. Well
– Kyrie Irving: 25.2 ppg 19.7 FGA 47/43% splits 58% True shooting% 7.4 offensive win shares
– Isaiah Thomas: 28.9 ppg 19.4 FGA 46/38% splits 62% True shooting% 10.9 offensive win shares
You see, this claim that Kyrie Irving is an upgrade offensively from Isaiah Thomas simply isn’t true. Yes, he shoots at a higher clip, he also has MUCH better teammates creating more open looks. Isaiah has better production on fewer shots. Not debatable.
But then you might say, well, Kyrie is a much better isolation player than Isaiah. Again..
– Kyrie Irving in ISO: 1.12 points per possession 47% FG% 11.7 FT frequency 49.6% Score frequency
– Isaiah Thomas in ISO: 1.12 points per possession 45% FG% 20.8% FT frequency 51.7% Score frequency
So you see, not even here is Kyrie an upgrade over Isaiah. They score the same amount per iso possession, only Isaiah gets to the line nearly twice as often in these situations. Looking at this, even Kyrie’s biggest offensive advantage over people is basically exactly what Isaiah is giving you, only a little worse.
His clutch scoring though! Kyrie hit that big shot in the Finals, so he must be a better clutch time performer than Isaiah!
– Kyrie Irving clutch stats: 110 pts 39.8% FG% 22% 3P% 44% eFG% 83 FGA
– Isaiah Thomas clutch stats: 223 pts (2nd in NBA) 47.8% FG% 40% 3p% 55% eFG% 134 FGA
Outside of Russell Westbrook, there was not a better clutch time performer than Isaiah last season. A player who found himself in these situations much more frequently, never saw a dip in his clutch time production. So no, Kyrie Irving is not an update over Isaiah in clutch spots
Well….what about defense! Kyrie isn’t 5’9!!
– Kyrie Irving defense: 1.5 defensive win shares 112 defensive rating 49.9% opponent FG%
– Isaiah Thomas defense: 1.6 defensive win shares 112 defensive rating 45.5% opponent FG%
Sooooo here’s where it gets interesting. I am fully aware of all the categories Isaiah ranks dead last in when it comes to defense. However, look at those numbers and tell me Kyrie is truly an upgrade? He’s not. It doesn’t matter that he’s taller, it doesn’t matter that he weighs more, his defense stinks. End of story.
To sum it up, offensively there is a drop off, and defensively it’s a wash at best. And some still think there’s this giant gap? Makes no sense
2. You have to throw in Isaiah + Crowder + players + high picks
The goal is to beat CLE right? So by giving them a PG who produces the same if not better, a GREAT value contract on a solid two way player, another guy, AND a high lottery pick to the team you are trying to advance past is a good idea? This makes the Celtics better long term? On what planet?
Also remember, the Celtics are going to have to pay Isaiah, but they can do so by using his Bird Rights. Why this is important is it means the Celtics can continue to add pieces this summer while still paying Isaiah whatever it costs. If they bring in Kyrie, they don’t have that same option. Kyrie Irving by himself does not get this team past GS, so where is the benefit of gutting your most valuable assets for him?
3. While younger, Kyrie still has his own injury issues
Look I can admit it’s a little scary that Isaiah is 28 and has this hip issue. However, Kyrie has never played over 72 games, and has been in the 50s in 3 of his 6 years in the NBA. Being 25 is great and all, but it’s not like his health is a 100% guarantee either. If he had these injury concerns at age 19-24, what does 25-28 look like?
4. It’s not a good system fit
Think of how Kyrie plays. He’s a shoot first point guard who has a hard time racking up assists playing with fucking Lebron and Kevin Love. He hates passing, it’s as simple as that. His 29.5% assist rate is lower than Isaiah’s at 32.5% and his turnovers are essentially as frequent, despite a lower usage rate. Say what you want about Isaiah, but he moves the ball better between the two. One of the staples of the Celtics offense is the pick and roll. Well, in that particular set, Isaiah scores more per possession (1.04 vs 0.96) has a higher eFG% (52.5% vs 50.7%) and ranks in the 94th percentile in P&R offense. Kyrie comes in at 84th. So when you boil it down to the basic question of who fits the Celtics system better, what has Kyrie shown that makes him the better option? The answer is nothing.
This is not to say Kyrie Irving isn’t an incredible basketball player. He 100% is. This is just to say that you know what, perhaps since he’s arrived to Boston Isaiah Thomas has developed as a basketball player in a way that he is now on that same level. So much so that it makes no sense why the Celtics should gut their team for a player who makes little to no difference for them. I get it, Kyrie was the #1 pick, has all the marketing and shit, and has come up big on the big stage. Isaiah was the 60th pick of the draft and has just started to explode onto the scene. People sometimes have a hard time looking at the production of these players and not just falling for the name.
So please, I beg of you internet, stop throwing out these ridiculous Isaiah/Kyrie trade ideas. It makes no sense whatsoever and I’ve seen enough.